lds church multiple probations

I dont know perhaps I am wrong but it just came into my mind when I let the thought of multiple probations grow in my mind and heart. It is headquartered in Manti, Utah, United States, where as of 2004 it maintained a membership of 300 to 500 adherents. When I wrote the first article in this series regarding Multiple Mortal Probations, I honestly expected it to be the least . are now throwing the baby out with the bathwater in what has been deemed a I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. Thank you for your effort, love, kindness, and being free with all the things that you think about and reveal to us. Praise God and Praise the Lord! Very well said Victoria! The thought of multiple probations is really interesting to me and honestly makes a lot of sense. He does not want people to wake up to who they really are. over the airways and fiber lines of our media sources. Thank you, Gregory! It is particularly comforting to realize that I can let go of the worry and anxiety of wayward children who have struggled to stay on the path, that this doctrine provides the hope that there is plenty of time, if they chooseto move forward in their ( or my own) progression. There is a humbling reward in the sense of Fathers confidence in me, This could easily explain what Joseph Smith was inferring when he said the following Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints official stance on multiple mortal probations (similar to reincarnation) is that is the doctrine of the devil. As for me, I will do my best to honor the rules of these forums. I like cats better. Eric, I know the doctrine has come to me, and indeed to many hundreds (if not nature. I still dont know, or even pretend to know, but I do know that some day I will know and it will make perfect sense to me. Here's another one from the New Testament people use to support reincarnation: Because we are told this is the time for men to prepare to meet God, Yea behold , I find I am perplexed it seems we are being told in more than this scripture, that THIS TIME is the time from which we attain our eternal status, NOT THROUGH OUR OWN TOTAL EFFORTS, but from our leaning on the atonement of Christ. the handicapped, the mentally challenged, the emotionally disturbed, the third world poor, MANY have come to test the rest of us. Multiple Probations is a beautiful doctrine. This doctrine also brings peace to my soul and increases my love and respect for our Heavenly Father and Mother and our Savior, Jesus Christ. A woman who has been identified before as Lori Daybell's "best friend" has written a lengthy 7-page letter describing the various forms of "deception" emanating from alleged "doomsday cult" leader Chad Daybell.. East Idaho News reporting on the Melanie Gibb's letter (read in full here) comes in the aftermath of 51-year-old Chad Daybell's arrest on two felony counts for . I was cautious at first with excitement, but, put it on a shelf. I enjoyed your book very much and reading your essay just now is when I felt enveloped in the calmest, loving peace, and knowing that bore witness that this additional knowledge is indeed true. I know many people think this is false doctrine and I did put myself in their shoes to understand where they were coming fromI could see what they were trying to say, but the fruits werent lining up. : And one lifetime is more than enough, if that lifetime lasts for eternity! I don't think the Laub quote you give suggests Laub read the KFD in terms of MMP either. When I was introduced to this topic of multiple mortal probations several years ago it just made sense. Orson Pratt apparently wasn't in on it or hadn't understood it as others had. Where is the God of hope in the thought of being consigned to an eternal damnation with no way to progress? various sects of Christianity as a true and practical doctrine, as evidenced by Considering the modern Mormon understanding of the titles Jehovah and Elohim didn't develop until long after Brigham Young, it is understandable that he could have developed his own interpretation of Micheal, Jehovah and Elohim. I asked the spirit and he said only once before. We welcome comments of all kinds on this blog and feel that people should be free to debate and discuss the topics in accordance with their personal views, so long as it is done in a courteous and respectful manner. And as this literally happens, every morning is a shadow of what will be in the long term of eternity. However, several people online were using LDS quotes in support of a false doctrine of reincarnation they call "multiple moral probations". You must understand that this is a very poor argument. It would be very helpful to me, if you could share scripture references for multiple probations. LDS sharing their beliefs about what the mysteries is hardly a breaking of the rules. It j u s t makes sense. Please consider subscribing in order to receive these updates. I love how this is turning into a string of testimonials. Thank you so much for sharing your story! I have learned for path, and between my Father in Heaven and me. It also appears to be welcomed and seriously considered among others of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I shouldn't have looked at this thread so late at night, because now I won't be able to delineate all my thoughts on it. Perhaps the clearest example of this is a statement recorded by Nauvoo saint, George Laub. I don't deny one can read it that way, but the more natural reading is that in his first mortality the Father was Christ. This clarification is very helpful. 2:307 or TPJS, pp. May we find Him now. His response changed my eternal perspective forever when the voice of the Lord spoke to me and said I Am not in the business of destroying my children, nor are they ever lost to me for they are mine. Then I saw a scripture pop into my mind which, when I read, took on a whole new meaning and suddenly restored the hope to me that the words the Lord gave to me were not only true, they are openly witnessed in our own scriptures. Whitney had high hopes his statement would pave the way for multiple probations to become church doctrine, and gave a copy to President Snow also: . Couldnt we just come again and again until we got it right? In my experience the most important point of the discussion here, which I believe to be among earnest seekers of truth, is being lightly treated by those on this forum but clearly illustrated in your comment. Thank you so very much for your great insight and belief in God and the scriptures!! Ok so if we are going to be Christs of other worlds then do we have to go through all the suffering Jesus went through in Gethsemane and on the cross? Another example comes as I try to understand the meaning of eternal lives. When I first heard of this I had some doubts, but as I read your words they ring true to my soul and it feels right. idea that a person would live their life on earth and then be permanently He taught Church history and doctrine for many years at Brigham Young University.He was also the director of the Latter-day Saint historical collection in the Harold B. Lee Library.. 1 Answer Sorted by: 4 Probation is an action taken by a church leader or council that limits some privileges of church membership. Apparently, Laub wasn't the only who understood the King Follett Sermon this way. This can be meant spiritually or physically this two sides mirror each other. Having been so moved upon in the process of discovery, my friend Greg and I compiled a book called Multiple Probations which is a compilation of interesting history, supportive scriptures, and informative quotes from early authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A blog from a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. May God continue to inspire you and bless you and your family, you are certainly blessings us! And they who remain shall also be quickened; nevertheless, they shall return again to their own place [the telestial kingdom where they now live], to enjoy that which they are willing to receive, because they were not willing to enjoy that which they might have received.". For me, if I get caught in thinking that something I say or do will be that which saves or enlightens you, I am in dangerous territory. Nevertheless, when I first read, and continued to read, SO many quotes from the early Brethren/leadership of the church, pieces started to come together. to do for Him in the past is a great motivator for similarly serving Him in the In 1786, a guy named John Zephaniah Holwell published a tract called "Dissertation on the Origin of Intelligent Beings, and on Divine Providence".I recommend it to anybody curious about the ideas of a premortal existence, war in heaven, plan of salvation, opposition in all things, infant baptism, free agency, multiple mortal probations, etc. [a] The Triumph and Glory of the Lamb: Doctrine and Covenants 76 in Its Historical Context May God bless you too. How did we live in the pre mortal realms and agree to a plan to come here where we only had one shot to get it right? Lucifer, where is thyglory, that I should worship thee? The thrill is gone. Further because the arguments depend upon misreadings and often lack explicit texts its pretty circumstantial arguments at their strongest. 9. Hi Diane! I am finding that this doctrine adds more meaning and understanding to my gospel study. JS also gave more info about this path to exaltation, which is that the Holy Ghost, the third member in the Godhead, was going to serve as a Christ. Is she the main source? "And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? p.104 - see also Documentary History of the Church 2:304-307 I told . This concept was taught by early LDS Church leaders. Well what did the Father do? Again, I hope my sincere curiosity is coming through. It "feels" more true to me than most of Christianity's "one and done" model. The doctrine of multiple probations again increases my understanding of eternal lives. and Eve could not know good from evil without partaking of both, which is Especially that your own witness didnt come from a human. It's kind of like how in our times people will say stuff like, "What if the Holy Ghost is Heavenly Mother?" It is a fairly new idea to me but seems entirely plausible. However this is no profound than all cows participating in the form of cowness for Platonists. This thesis explains a bunch of odd data points and suggests a straightforward explanation for the origin of Adam-God. Required fields are marked *. Many members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in my belief are afraid of these lost doctrines especially when they are exposed to it from news agencies that are trying to (in my opinion) to make people fear that if it doesnt come directly from the president or prophet of the church then we are being led away by false prophets. Why he went and took a body and went to redeem a world in the flesh and had power to lay down his life and to take it up again.". Thanks for sharing this interesting history. Terri, when I first learned the doctrine I instantly knew of its truthfulness and then went into a pretty strong state of depression for some of the same reasons youve mentioned. Knowing what the Lord has trusted me it is hard to accept ideas that have not been touted over pulpits or publicized The main topics are the levels, or ladder, of eternal progression and the end times servant otherwise known as the Davidic Servant. Thank you for bringing it out of obscurity. (Some received only Godhood.) I continue to rejoice and find joy in seeking and discovering truth. News. But as I have contemplated his question, I have come to know we still need a Savior because it is through His atonement and grace that we can even have multiple probations and be resurrected in the first place. For example, our book on multiple probations was an attempt to show that there is substantial support for multiple probations in the scriptures and in the words of authorities. He was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thank you again for bringing more clarity of the Great Plan to light. That phrase indeed feels appropriate for the version of My second Temple Marriage was to a man who had spiritual gifts, such as seeing, hearing, and speaking to those beyond the veil. The seriousness, the risk, and the glories of mortal life are undercut the moment one supposes he will have a million or more subsequent probations of the same sort. Progression for a time and then it is over just doesnt compute for me. Two of the women Smith secretly married as plural wives in the 1840s said that he privately affirmed reincarnation. Elena, thank you for sharing your experience. But I can understand a model where the soul continues to return to learn new things and progress. Essentially, we are private individuals freely exercising the right to discuss doctrinal opinions, and to bear witness of things we feel to be true. dangerous doctrine. When I was young, I was given a true, but what I now as insights and spiritual impressions have come, I have not wanted to share the That is there is a certain form that Elijah participates in as part of being a person. The dramatic change from light to It is truly beautiful, for how can we grow without those who are willing to play those opposing roles? D&C 88 dates to 1833, which is long before JS was revealing/discussing reincarnation related doctrine. I understand the principle of Condensension and know of my involvement there. At the north end of the FLDS community is an abandoned man-made cave, which is a bunker-like network of tunnels drilled 100-yards deep . In January of 1846, just over a year and a half after the death of JS, Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball ordained each other to act as a savior. consider to be an incomplete version of the Plan of Salvation by my faith. I do not believe I am alone in these sentiments. Just being made perfect from the get-go isn't something special. I know that this is true. Daybell seems to have emphasized the idea of a Millennial Church that was being formed under his direction: The LDS church is still God's church, but the Church of the Firstborn, this. Thanks for sharing Eric! Now of course the argument of various forms of platonism in early Mormonism typically comes with it the claim that Joseph ismisreading platonism. Just think of the fun rides in life one could take though Ken! I must continually ask myself the question, Who am I to believe that Gods work is dependent on my understanding, teaching and attempting to enlighten the unenlightened? I must also daily keep in mind my own nothingness and utter reliance on The Savior of The World (2 Nephi 4). Multiple Mortal Probations (MMP) Eternal Progression, and Progression between Kingdoms The Flag of the Kingdom of God Apostasy Unchangeability of the Doctrines of Salvation and Exaltation Fallibility or Infallibility of Men Appointed as Church Leaders Whether or Not the LDS Church Could Fall into Apostasy I believe this to be truth. I can testify if one puts their effort into their relationship with Heavenly Father and Jesus first, (who are one God) And accept the Saviors Atonement by putting the effort into repenting and forgiving. I'm not convinced that we know the basis for this train of thought (which of course not all the brethren agreed with) However it's certainly very plausible that it's from these events that Brigham developed his theology - possibly due to ambiguity in the original events. deep questions about the eternities and the knowledge satisfied our questions When I first heard this doctrine I felt a rush come over me that is hard to understand and explain. And like those, here, before me have mentioned, this doctrine has brought more clarity, understanding of why I went through my own experiences in this probation. I remember feeling a heavy emotion even as a very young person that I would now call despair, when I first learned this. i.e. This concept found me. Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. are so advanced in their abilities and gifts from birth, such as music, art, By Over the past few years it has been my privilege, as well as many who I know, to have naturally and individually come upon the doctrine recently called Multiple Probations. Thank you for sharing this. One of the things that became obviously clear to me is the purpose and reason for title names. For some of us, the doctrine came along at a time we had As long as I don't come back as a cockroach or some kind of insect. Joseph well understood multiple probation, but to openly teach it would have meant major upheaval and further loss of members. I dont necessarily have all the answers there. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. I learned long ago to stay quiet in Sunday school. The more I know the more I am constrained to announce The Glory of God and my own unworthiness before He Who Is Mighty To Save. Even that though is pretty vague and could easily be taken in terms ofAlma 42:25. Adam-God can then be seen as based on JS' teachings and the endowment, with a simple fundamental misunderstanding on the identity of Micheal in the Godhead. I believe in this doctrine and am excited to continue to receive further light and knowledge. The "True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days" down in Manti headed by James Harmstrom (who died in 2013), teaches or taught this doctrine along with plural marriage. These secret teachings coincided with teachings by Joseph that either explicity stated or implied that previously resurrected beings, essentially from a prior earth, could interact with mortals on this earth. I share your enthusiasm for truth regardless of its source. Anyways, it soon became apparent that his fruits were not matching what I knew to be honest and true from my own scripture study, and beliefs. I do not condemn those who feel this way. It is uplifting to the soul and brings me closer to Christ. ABC News. 44 Wherefore, he saves ALL EXCEPT THEMthey shall go away into everlasting punishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to reign with the devil and his angels in eternity, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment. Thanks for sharing your own experience, which is validating and comforting to know the Lord is answering many of His childrens questions! He wrote, "Jesus Christ spoke in this manner; I do as my Father before me did. Never at any time in my research and doctrinal interests have zombies, adultery, and murder ever remotely crossed my mind. Hearing experiences like yours along with Erics and Julies really helps me. Without a previous life, how could the blind man commit a sin responsible for his handicap, as the man was blind from birth? This is not a final conclusion by any means, but this strikes me as Joseph Smith trying to get to his next level of understanding and thinking some of his own thoughts on certain things short of getting a definitive revelation on the subject. I refer to it as the doctrine of eternal lives which includes the idea of Multiple Mortal Probations. on several counts: Michael Quinn documented it as follows: By the time of his death in 1844, Joseph Smith had also reversed his prior rejection of the Cabala's doctrine of "transmigration of the souls." Thanks for responding! (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 Vols. While belief in this doctrine is unpopular in the Christian world at this time, I would like to share some of the ways it has been a blessing to me. car accident on meadowbrook parkway today. I first heard briefly the Doctrine of Multiple Probations from Julie Rowe on AVOW an LDS forum, the arguments that followed, all bothered me, I was at that time on my own journey. To me it not only set me free trying to tug and pull and push my husband in the gospel but it set him free as well. Even more than that I feel that spirit of truth in my heart that it is true. The Mormon scriptures clearly state that meat "should be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.". man. Kim, that is a very insightful point that would seem to be a witness Of truth hidden in plain sight that if reincarnation is a false doctrine, that there must be an opposite, which I feel my spirit was first introduce to in the temple. we are saviors in a derived sense in which we preach the gospel. In this world of learning I can progress to 6th grade, and then continue on through junior high and high school and graduate. If you have already answered this question in a post or book, could you direct me to it. Multiple Mortal Probations The final theology on reincarnation on this plane we will look at in this article will be the Brighamite idea of multiple mortal probations (MMP). I believe that the greatest truths will be met with the greatest opposition. A looser neoPlatonism is more defensible both because it actually was in pretty widespread belief but also because we can trace phraseology from actual neoplatonic translations of the early 19th century. How have most LDS people come to learn of the concept of multiple probations? The answers are there if you seek them from the Lord and in His timing. But now when I read verses like this one in 3 Nephi 28:7 and at that day they were to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens. I have greater understanding with the doctrine of multiple probations. we are talking about multiple mortal probations that are all human.] It is exciting to be on the earth again in these last days and to participate in the ongoing Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. The LDS church teaches the Pauline principle of many degrees in heaven. Here is the relevant portion: they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. One example of this is the multiple scripture references to go no more out. We also know that there is an opposite to all things. Eric, I have so many follow up questions!! true, it should only come through certain lines of authority. I remember when my sister Julie first introduced multiple probations to me, the concept seemed like it could be true. As I am learning and beginning to understand more of multiple probations, eternal progression, ascension and condescension, I am seeing a much larger picture in the eternal realm of learning and progression. The fact there is no scripture or officially declared doctrine stating multiple mortal probations is false is absolutely an evidence in the doctrine's favor. There is a Facebook Group where this doctrine has been presented the true version of it with all the evidence in forms of quotes. Section 76 of the Doctrine and Covenants felt like fringe doctrine to some early members of the church when it was first received. Peace, enlightenment, and hope are wonderful gifts. WHY ONE of my sons and I have always said we CAME here with a testimony finally clicked and I feel so blessed because it isnt that easy for some to believe. Another point on this, it is said in the bible that men like Adam, Methuselah, and Enoch were men who became perfect in their generation. One of the questions that has bothered me since I was very young is: How did it all start?

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